Monday, June 08, 2009

Attempting VBAC? Read this first aka Rashmi's Horror Story

This post is inspired by this horror story. Do read:
http://vijayashankar.wordpress.com/2009/06/04/all-about-wockhardt-bannerghatta-road-bangalore/

The no. of things that were done wrong in this case is way too many to be listed at one place.

If you want to help, please talk to Wockhardt and ask them for explanations. Like a pest. Again and again. If you are considering Wockhardt for a procedure yourself, DON'T, and tell them why you are not coming.

This is murder, because the child was ready to be born and by all indications, was a healthy child raring to start his innings in the world. More than Rashmi, I am worried about their older child. What is it like, to be 4 years old, and waiting with mixed emotions, for a new child to come into the family, and then to find a mutilated mother instead?

After the hugely popular Mad Momma blogged about it, within hours, Wockhardt responded on her site with their version of the story. Thank you MM!!

Without going into the details, lets just say that i read the hospital's response VERY carefully. And found holes aplenty in it. Read it for yourself.

I have written a detailed post on my experience with similar circumstances on Ishaan's blog. You may want to read that if you are considering making a decision about now.

Edited to Add on 17.06.2009:
Wockhardt Hospitals – End of Episode

Wockhardt has said that everything they did in Rashmi’s case was right and that they will do the exact same thing for the next person who comes in. Do I want the “next person” who comes in, to be someone I know.. ? Take a wild guess..

To me, that is the end of episode. There will be no more questions to Wockhardt. The decision is made.
If I know you as a friend, I will not let u go to Wockhardt. Not even for a small splinter of a cut. If you do go, don’t tell me. If you lose your child, I will blame you for it.

Nobody wants to take even a 1% chance with their baby. If you are among the people who do not mind taking that chance, don’t look to me for sympathy when it ends badly.

Rashmi was asked to pay 2.2 lakhs for her dead child. That is excellent burial money for a child that was healthy and raring to be born. All that was to be done was to bring him from inside the uterus to outside.The heart aches as I write this.. because I’m thinking of Ishaan.. of how, at the end, I used to talk to him as if he was outside the womb already..

If you are considering Wockhardt for medical tourism, you will do it with the knowledge that when things go wrong, you will be alone in a foreign country, with no one to help you, your body damaged and your money gone. If all of us together could not even get an independent enquiry for Rashmi’s case, what do you think your options are?

End of post and end of discussion. Please don't spam this space any more. The discussion route was open, but as soon as someone chose the spamming and personal abuse method, that route has been closed.

PS: In case you do not want to link hop, here is the whole story of Rashmi:

A Small Note… and a Request
I hardly know Rashmi. In the 30-odd days since I met her, I have grown to admire her courage and strength of conviction.
As many of you know, I have grown up around doctors, and tend to shy away from lending credence to “hospital horror stories”. As you also know, I tend to be a very unemotional person. And very hard to convince.
So it’s taken me a little over a month to agree to post this. A month in which I myself have presented the medical facts to several leading gynaecologists; met the medical services director of Wockhardt in an attempt to convince the hospital to conduct an unbiased investigation; done a lot of independent reading and research of my own. My conclusion: THIS IS JUST PLAIN WRONG.
Please do your bit to see that as many people as possible read it. Circulate it via email, via Facebook, and any other means you can think of. Talk about it. If it can help prevent even one more incident like this, it will have done its job. Hopefully, someone, somewhere will lend their voice to Rashmi’s.
Thanks.–RegardsVijayashankar
——————————–****************************___________________&&&&&&&&&
Rashmi’s Story
My name is Rashmi B.T. I am 35 years old, married to an air force officer, Vivek, and have a four year old son, Dhruv, delivered by emergency Cesarean section in 2004. On March 4th, 2009, my life was changed unalterably. I lost a baby that I had carried inside me, completely healthy, for a full 41 weeks.
I understand that doctors are human, that mistakes happen. However, I have come to believe that what happened to me could have been prevented if the doctor and the hospital had provided the most basic level of care and expertise. What’s worse, they refuse to take steps to prevent someone else going through the same nightmare, simply because they want to protect themselves from the possibility of litigation – something I am not interested in unless it is the only way to force them to change their protocols.
The Beginning
In June 2008, Vivek and I learnt that we were expecting our second child. The pregnancy was uneventful. I was healthy and fit. Every prenatal visit and test showed that the baby was healthy and developing well. During my 35th week, I decided to consult Dr. Latha Venkataraman at The Nest, Wockhardt’s Bannerghatta Road maternity facility to see me through the rest of my pregnancy.
Despite the fact that I had already undergone a C-section, she urged me to opt for a V-BAC (Vaginal Birth After Cesarean Section) or in layman’s terms, a normal delivery. She brushed aside my concerns, telling me that a second C-section would be six times more risky and assuring me that a V-BAC would be less risky and almost pain-free.
My due date was estimated as 26 Feb 2009. I visited Dr. Latha on 28 Feb. She wrote on my record: “delivery will be attended by Dr. Latha/Dr. Prabha.” Since I had neither met, heard of, nor been examined by Dr. Prabha before, I was concerned. Dr. Latha explained that Dr. Prabha Ramakrishna is another consultant at Wockhardt, and that it was a hospital requirement for her to write both their names down as possible attending doctors for my labor/delivery. However, she assured me that it was just a formality, and that she would be the one to attend to me when I went into labor.
On 3 March, I visited Dr. Latha again. Since I was so far past my due date, I requested that a scan be done to check on the baby.
When I called her to read out the results of the report, she did not want to know anything other than the liquor content, though I specifically asked her if there was any other information she would require from the scan. She told me I could either wait for labor to start or choose a day to come in and have my labor induced.
The Nightmare Begins
I went into labor at 2am on 4 March, and got admitted to the hospital at 5.15am.
By 7.45 am, I was experiencing contractions less than a minute apart. Dr. Latha came and did a quick examination. I was shifted to the labor ward at 8am where I remained until 1.50p.m., under the sole care of nurse Savitha. Dr. Latha was not present at all.
A junior doctor, Dr. Shirley, was available intermittently. She spent most of the time on her cell phone, talking to her husband. She was keen to see him before he left on an 11-day vacation. A Dr. Chetna substituted for her while when she went to see her husband off.
There was no other doctor present. Dr. Prabha was called each time the fetal heart rate fell (this happened a couple of times). She was seeing outpatients and attending two other deliveries simultaneously, so she was only able to come to the labor ward to see me four times, for less than 5 minutes each time.
At 10am, I was given Syntocinon, a drug used to enhance labor; the dosage was increased at 10.45am. At 12.30, there was vaginal bleeding, and the nurse phoned Dr. Prabha, who advised her to “keep a watch”. The bleeding reduced, but I began to feel pain of increasing intensity during contractions. Dr. Shirley reappeared at 1.00 p.m., examined me vaginally and announced that I was almost fully dilated and would deliver by 1.30pm. I complained several times of excruciating pain but was told that it was normal. At 1.30pm, Dr. Prabha came in and was told by Dr. Shirley that I was fully dilated and would deliver any minute. Despite that, Dr. Prabha breezed off to visit another patient in the OPD.
I felt no urge whatsoever to push, yet was asked to do so. The stirrup on the delivery table kept breaking off – I was told that this is a recurring problem that “needed attention”. At 1.50 pm, the fetal heart rate dropped to 80 beats per minute. Dr. Prabha was called again. She checked the fetal heart rate on the CTG, explained that this was normal when the baby was passing through the birth canal, and asked me to hold my breath and push hard. I felt no sensation in my cervical area, but felt intense pain tearing my stomach apart. I felt like my baby had rolled into my stomach and could see its body pushing up against my ribcage. I was screaming, pointing at my stomach, and telling them that my stomach was hurting, and there was no urge to push. But she told me to “push, push harder”. I then heard Dr. Prabha saying “Get the OT ready”. She told my husband that she was going to attempt to deliver by forceps – if that was unsuccessful, she’d have to do a Caesarian.
The OT wasn’t on standby, wasn’t ready. I was numb with pain. They wanted me to get up and move to the operation table. I couldn’t move. They eventually slid something under my back and I pushed myself on to the OT table, as there was no transfer stretcher available. I complained of severe shoulder and chest pain. No one paid me any attention; everyone was busy preparing the OT, and the anesthetist was attempting to top up my epidural. The fetal heart rate was never monitored in the OT. Dr. Prabha unsuccessfully attempted a forceps delivery at 2.20 p.m., and then cut me open. I heard a deafening sucking sound, after which I must have passed out.Later, I learnt that my uterus had ruptured along the scar of my previous Caeserian section. My baby was found floating in my abdomen. He had no heartbeat and he wasn’t breathing. He had been deprived of oxygen for a long time – 43 minutes. They “resuscitated” my son and put him on a ventilator.
When I opened my eyes I saw Dr. Latha leave, followed by Dr. Prabha. Dr. Shirley was suturing me while laughing and talking with another nurse. I felt reassured that my baby was okay, even though I had neither seen nor heard him.“Don’t Worry, You Can Conceive Again”At 3.30pm, a nurse struggled to take my BP reading; the BP apparatus wasn’t working and had to be replaced. Dr. Latha met Vivek at the NICU and told him that the baby was doing fine and had to be kept under observation. She also told him that my scar had ruptured, but said that I was okay. At 4.30 pm, my husband repeatedly begged the nurses to give me pain relief. I was then shifted to the ward.
At 9.30 pm the neonatologist told Vivek that the baby had been deprived of oxygen for over 40 minutes, possibly resulting in “some extent” of brain damage. This was the first inkling we had that something had gone wrong.
The next morning, I was given a sponge bath at 6am. I then lay unattended until 2.30 p.m., when Dr. Prabha, Dr. Latha, and Dr. Prakash (the neonatologist) saw me for the first time after the operation. Dr. Latha unceremoniously ripped the dressing off my wound without using any gel or spirit, and pronounced the wound clean.
We were told that our baby would be kept under observation for another 24 hours. Later that night Dr. Latha came in at 9.50pm. Her only words to me: “Don’t worry, you can conceive again. Your uterus is intact.”“Do Japa and Tapa To Get Better”"None of the consultants saw me on 6 March. That night, my milk came in, and my breasts became swollen and painful. I asked in vain for assistance. After repeatedly begging for help, I sent Dr. Latha a text message at noon on 7 March. At 4pm, a nurse told me that the doctor had instructed them to use a breast pump to relieve my pain – however, since the hospital didn’t have one, I would have to go and buy one.
Dr. Latha finally visited me at 7.30 pm. She confessed that she was unaware that there had been a 43 minute delay in performing my C-section. She also admitted that instructions delivered over the phone could never substitute for personal supervision. She said, and again I quote, “Do some pranayama, japa, and tapa to help you get better.”
Throughout my stay, nurses didn’t know what medication I had been prescribed. They kept asking me what medication I was to be given. They had to be repeatedly reminded to give me medication.
For the next 13 days, Arnav was in the NICU on a ventilator. Throughout that time, he was completely reliant on ventilator support, his eyes were dilated and non-responsive to light, and there was no sign of movement. After a week, the neonatologist asked me to express milk and said they would feed the baby with a pipe inserted from his nose to the stomach. I did this for the next six days.
On 16 March, we decided to let Arnav go. We requested that he be removed from life support.
“We Would Do Exactly The Same For The Next Patient Who Walks In”Vivek and I wanted to learn what had gone wrong with such a healthy pregnancy. Basic reading indicated that scar rupture is a well-known risk when you attempt to deliver vaginally after a first C-section, and must therefore be monitored very closely by a doctor if attempted at all.
We met with the hospital administration and the doctors. All we wanted was an explanation. To hear the words, “I made an error in judgment”. Instead, we were met with a wall of defensiveness. Dr. Latha said that despite knowing the outcome, she would take exactly the same steps with the next patient who walked through her door.
I decided to get a second opinion. And then a third, and a fourth, and a fifth. Three of Bangalore’s best-known gynaecologists (and other doctors too) categorically stated that given my age (35), the estimated weight of the baby (> 4 kilos), and the duration of gestation (>40 weeks), a vaginal birth should never have been attempted, and scar rupture was a logical, obvious outcome.
All reading I have done has backed this up. Even a layperson’s book like “What to expect when you are expecting” (pages 363-364) says that abdominal pain during a V-BAC indicates a scar rupture and outlines the procedure for safe delivery of the baby. Given that I was complaining of excruciating abdominal pain, shoulder pain and chest pain, the doctor should have known my scar was rupturing. I should never have been asked to push; it exacerbated the rupture. Nor should I have been given a drug that intensified my contractions. By Dr. Prabha’s own admission, she did not know about the rupture until she opened me up.
Several doctors have also told us that keeping Arnav on the ventilator for 13 days was an exercise in futility from the first. At no point were we told that he would never survive if taken off the ventilator – had we known that, we would never have subjected him, or ourselves to two weeks of anguish. All we were told was that he “might be” brain damaged to “some extent” but they couldn’t predict how bad it would be.
A Brick Wall of Defensiveness; Discrepancies Galore
When I attempted to engage with the hospital to ask them to change their protocol of treatment based on an unbiased review conducted with the inputs of external gynecologists, I was met with a brick wall of defensiveness. They refused to conduct a fair, transparent investigation, claiming that their internal investigation showed that they had done everything right and that losing the baby was “my destiny”. Dr. Latha went so far as to say that since I am educated, I should have been better informed about the procedure.
I don’t want to sue them for money. I just want them to change their policies and protocols so that this doesn’t happen to someone else. I have been hitting a brick wall for two months, and feel that the only way to make them pay attention is to tell my story to people.
There are many discrepancies and attempts to cover up the hospital’s inefficiency (to name a few: baby’s weight recorded as 3Kg despite the fact that he was never weighed; post-facto note of fetal heart rate as 180bpm despite the fact that the heart rate was never monitored in the OT; discharge summary says “live term baby extracted” even though Arnav had no heartbeat or respiration at birth; half-hour discrepancy between CTG trace and labor room clock). I asked questions to which I was given ludicrous answers (Eg: Our pediatrician is very experienced, so he can guess the weight of any baby just by looking at it).
We were charged approximately Rs. 2,20,000 by Wockhardt. Of this, we found over Rs. 7000 billed for things that had never been done (spinal anesthetic, an extra day of room rent, food not consumed). We subsequently found more extraneous charges, amongst them an amount billed for tests that were performed on 18 March, two days after Arnav’s death.
My Story Has Just Begun…
My uterus is still healing. My back still hurts from the trauma. And my heart aches for Arnav, the baby I will never hold.
More than that, I am filled with the fear that this will happen again. After all, Dr. Latha says she would “do exactly the same again” even though she knows the outcome. And the hospital agrees that she – and they – did everything right.
Wockhardt delivers approximately 80 babies each month. With BP machines that don’t work, a delivery room stirrup that’s falling off and that has “needed to be fixed for a while”, nurses who don’t know what medication they are supposed to administer, and one (yes ONE) OT dedicated to emergency deliveries. That OT wasn’t ready when I needed it. What guarantee do you have that it will be ready when you need it? Sure, they claim to have nine other OTs in the hospital – but if they are all as woefully unprepared as the one I was in, my story could be yours.
I want them to change their policies, and I won’t give up until they do.
Thank you for reading.

Disclaimer: Rashmi's story is as received from the source mentioned above. The views in this post are obviously purely personal views (like all other posts on this blog). They are not a specialist's opinion. The source of Wockhardt's response is also as indicated in the link.

47 comments:

Wockhardt Hospitals said...

Hi How do we know

This Post is in response in connection with the story of Rashmi BT's experience at Wockhardt hospitals. While we are firmly behind her at this time of extreme grief as an institution we thought it appropriate to bring it to the public domain our version of the real story at wockhardt Hospitals and what we believe actually happened The below mail gives you the complete details of the case.

However in case anyone of you does not have the time to go through the same in detail we would like to let you know that Wockhardt Hospitals had followed all the necessary medical protocols that any reputed institution across the globe would have followed. We have always tried to question the limits to which medical science can progress and have been also largely responsible for the positive changes that the Indian healthcare industry has been witnessing in recent years. It is but unfortunate that certain risks in medicine cannot be completely mitigated how much ever one might strive.

Please go through the real truth behind Rashmi BT Story at our blog at



The Real Truth of Rashmi BT STory

How do we know said...

dear Wockhardt: I have said it earlier and will say it again. have read this version of the story VERY carefully. not only is this unconvincing, but its also plain ridiculous.

I will not go into a point by point rebuttal of ur story. This is a matter of attitude. Wockhardt needs to admit that it made a mistake. It needs to admit that the specialist team in this case was callous at best and criminal at worst. It also needs to admit that Dr. Latha Venkatraman abandoned a case like VBAC and handed it to her "team member" who had had no consultation with the patient, and with whom the patient was not comfortable. And that Dr. Prabha too, was not present all the time.

Either you can admit you made a mistake, terminate the contracts of ALL the guilty people, and win back at least some of the respect(and customers) or you can continue to wallow in this pathetic self defence wall, and a ghost of a story that convinces no one.

Remember, we are not interested in responding to you or entering a war of words.

Unless we see some delivery of justice here, you can rest assured that the money will not come to you when we need medical services. This is a fairly long term impact.

sumanbolar said...

CLAP, CLAP, How do we know...

So here is my response to Wockhardt's pathetic and very belated CYA attempts (have posted this on MM's blog too:

I have personally met with the medical services director and the customer services head of Wockhardt regarding this case. Disagree with Wockhardt’s rebuttal on a couple of points:

1. Rashmi did not shift to Dr. Latha in her 35th week because she “wanted” a VBAC. She shifted because she was until that time in Jammu, where her husband was posted. A cousin of Dr. Latha’s referred her to Dr. Latha. Rashmi had never heard the term “VBAC” until Dr. Latha brought it up.

2. Although the ROCG does prescribe certain guidelines they are meant for women with the build of a Caucasian, not for Indian women; also, we lack the kind of processes and facilities that are available in the West, as this case clearly indicates.

3. The so-called “notations” in the OPD file indicating that risks, pros and cons were discussed with her is simply a scrawl on a prescription pad which says “VBAC discussed with patient”. In fact, I had asked Dr. Lloyd Nazareth, the Medical Services Director, the specific question: “What is the process Wockhardt follows for ensuring that a patient has understood the risks of a particular procedure? For example, do you hand out a pamphlet that explains the process and then take a signature saying “read and understood”? His answer: “We have no such process. In this case, the words “procedure discussed” have been written on a prescription pad by the consultant gynaecologist, and we as hospital management take this to imply that the consultant has explained a procedure in-depth, discussed its risks, and addressed a patient’s concerns regarding the procedure.” I then asked how the word “discussed” could measure the quality of a discussion, and got no response. The hospital lacks basic processes for obtaining a patient’s informed consent.

I won’t even bother further refuting Wockhardt’s response, except to ask why the poster has not addressed the following issues:
Fraudulent billing; post-facto notations on patient records (in different colored inks, no less!); lack of basic working apparatus…

Makes me want to either laugh, or be sick.

How do we know said...

Hi Suman: :-) Thanks for dropping by. i have been following this very closely and read ur response on MM's blog.. thanks for posting it here too..

Hope that Rashmi is better now. A scar like that will never go away, but we are praying for her and hoping that she will get the justice that she so deserves. Since you are in touch with her, please tell her that there are a lot of us praying for her every night. :-)

Am glad that Wockhardt has at least responded. Am hoping that they will also see the error of their ways.

Wockhardt Hospitals said...

Dear How do we know

Thanks for your comments. I am sure by how you have learnt that we do tolerate voices of dissent and comments at our blog. In fact we are not like others whose responses begin with CLAP CLAP CLAP.. We do believe that our users and patients are to be respected and their voices heard too . We respect everyone's views and we also hope to be heard by others.

Similarly we had a detailed discussion with Rashmi and her friend Suman Bollar and told them exactly what happened.In fact they had met with everyone connected with the case and given them a very fair hearing

Our responses are only to give the other perspective of our story and we have no desire to get into a verbal duel with bloggers and social media.

sumanbolar said...

Hit a raw nerve, eh? So here are questions that I'd like bloggers to encourage people to ask the hospital:

1. Why is Dr. Latha's notation in the OPD record regarding Dr. Prabha as her "co-consultant" made only on the 28th of Feb., AFTER Rashmi's predicted due date? Would that be a good time for a patient who is past her due date to switch her obstetrician, or even make enquiries about the qualifications and credentials of the co-consultant?

2. Since Dr. Latha is such an experienced VBAC practitioner who follows ROCG and other foreign-body guidelines, please publish the guidelines she followed, and match Rashmi's records against them.

3. Rashmi's key question: "If I have paid for doctors who were fellows and members of the Royal College of Obstetricians, why was the registrar attempting to deliver me?"

4. Another key question from Rashmi: "Why did an experienced doctor like Dr. Prabha not recognize signs of uterine rupture? I was yelling with pain in the labour ward and kept pointing at my stomach and telling her that there was a ripping pain in my stomach. I complained of shoulder pain and chest pain in the OT she still did not recognize the rupture. She admitted that she knew of the rupture only when she opened me? Why?"

5. Registrar Dr. Shirley had announced that Rashmi would deliver by 1.30 p.m. What was Dr. Prabha doing in OPD at that time? Uterine rupture does not happen suddenly but over a period of time... during which Rashmi was attended by a registrar who is NOT an ROCG-qualified doctor.

6. Why did it take 43 mins to conduct an emergency C-section? Baby fetal heart rate was down to 58 bpm at 1.50 p.m. and baby was extracted at 2.33 p.m.

7. Why was the fetal monitor not connected in the OT? Is this what VBAC guidelines specify?

8. If the baby had a heartbeat of 180 bmp, how is it possible for the outcome to be a baby without heartbeat and respiration at birth?

9. Would an internal review with your own gynecologists and external gynecologists who are close aides of Dr. Latha be unbiased? Why have you refused to conduct a transparent review that includes the inputs of Dr. Prakash Kini and Dr. Narayanan, two obstetricians widely recognized as Bangalore's seniormost obstetricians, as requested by Rashmi?

10. Finally: Please have this case put up for review in the next conference of BSOG and FOGSI and have the proceedings covered by the press.

How do we know said...

Hi Suman: thank you. These are VERY well asked questions. Hi Wockhardt: Please listen to Rashmi. We are all asking for answers to these questions. Particularly the proceedings at FOGSI.

புருனோ Bruno said...

//Please do your bit to see that as many people as possible read it. Circulate it via email, via Facebook, and any other means you can think of. Talk about it. If it can help prevent even one more incident like this, it will have done its job. Hopefully, someone, somewhere will lend their voice to Rashmi’s.//
So you are suggesting that there shall be no more normal deliveries for mothers who has had a previous LSCS

And then there is a hue and cry that doctors are doing caesarean section and not allowing normal deliveries “for money sake”
The tendency to blame each and everything that a doctor does is very sad

புருனோ Bruno said...

//During my 35th week, I decided to consult Dr. Latha Venkataraman at The Nest, Wockhardt’s Bannerghatta Road maternity facility to see me through the rest of my pregnancy.//
So who was this lady consulting till that time
Why did she change the doctor
Was it because the previous doctor said “Caesarean only” and she changed because this doctor agreed for a VBAC

புருனோ Bruno said...

//We stick to Rashmi’s version. We believe her.//
So you are suggesting that there shall be no more normal deliveries for mothers who has had a previous LSCS
And then there is a hue and cry that doctors are doing caesarean section and not allowing normal deliveries “for money sake”
The tendency to blame each and everything that a doctor does is very sad
//During my 35th week, I decided to consult Dr. Latha Venkataraman at The Nest, Wockhardt’s Bannerghatta Road maternity facility to see me through the rest of my pregnancy.//
So who was this lady consulting till that time
Why did she change the doctor
Was it because the previous doctor said “Caesarean only” and she changed because this doctor agreed for a VBAC
Questions to Rashmi
1. Was she aware of the risks of VBAC
2. Did she ever opt for LSCS
3. If so why she did not consult a doctor who could have done LSCS
It is a common thing we see on the roads when a two wheeler and a pedestrian dash, the illiterate rowdy mob just thrash the two wheeler driver
When a two wheeler and a four wheeler dash, the four wheeler is immediately thrashed, even without trying to find who is at fault
Similarly in this case as Rashmi has lost her baby, everyone is training the guns on the hospital, conveniently forgetting other facts

புருனோ Bruno said...

Question to everyone
Do you say that once a woman has delivered by LSCS, Vaginal Delivery should not be attempted the second time

Neil said...

. The so-called “notations” in the OPD file indicating that risks, pros and cons were discussed with her is simply a scrawl on a prescription pad which says “VBAC discussed with patient”

Suman : Do you want hospitals to educate people on specific surgeries.If you can write so well on medical terminologies and can even note down minute details regarding whow many minutes the doctors spoke with her husband or how much time the nurse took to come to Rashmi, I am sure you should have done your home work before admitting Rashmi.. Hospitals gives you options and after that its entirely up to you on the next step of action.No Hospital forces you to opt for a certain procedure

Either you can admit you made a mistake, terminate the contracts of ALL the guilty people, and win back at least some of the respect(and customers) or you can continue to wallow in this pathetic self defence wall, and a ghost of a story that convinces no on

You exuberance and personal hatred for the doctors at Wockhardt only proves that you did not have anything substantial to tell them at the time of Rashmi's unfortunate incident. If it is indeed true about everthing you said about NEGLIGENCE why did you heep quite for 3 months..

Also I am not sure if you have an hidden agenda behind all your so called woman with a mission

I understand your state of the mind, but engaging in a war with someone whom you could not do anything at the time of this hapened and raking up all this now only goes on to show that your hatred allows you to talk without the energy to really bring out the truth.

How do we know said...

Hi Bruno: I have already responded to your comment on the other blog where you posted them.Will request you to not spam this space if there is nothing new or relevant to add. Please see my response on the original blog for answers to your comments.

Hi Neil: ??? I am confused by this comment. What, exactly, is your point? Brevity will be much appreciated. Thank you.

sumanbolar said...

How do we:

Neil and Bruno are the same person. Don't bother. And for anyone else who wants to question timings: they are available in the medical records. Which I have seen. And Neil/Bruno has not.

Neil said...

Hi Suman

Since you act as three person wtih a single ID and spam about this piece of news eveywhere .. Please dont assume everyone will do like you do

Just because you do not have concrete answers to many of the questions raised by me does not mean that one Neil and bruno is one person

Jus becoz people start believing your sob story does not mean that eveyone will be taken for a ride and start believing everything you say

How do we know : Hi Neil: ??? I am confused by this comment. What, exactly, is your point? Brevity will be much appreciated. Thank you

I guess the above should be meant for everyone .. Just becoz Suma Bollar and you share the same conviction does not mean you can give her freedom to rant her copy and paste everywhere. After all this not Australia you know !!

How do we know said...

Hi Suman: I am really not into this for personal egos, which, am afraid, are now getting involved. I am very grateful for the work you are doing for Rashmi.

Hi Neil: One more time, and your point is? Brevity will be much appreciated. Thank you.

Also, you will please refrain from personal attacks in this space. I am not into Rashmi's case for personal ego pandering of anyone. I do not want to know anyone who is personally involved. Not even Rashmi herself. To me, its a case that has to be evaluated on its own facts. No names are required and absolutely no personal connections are necessary.

And like i have already mentioned - unless Wockhardt has a better answer to the questions raised by bloggers, please dont bother coming back. We dont care for word duels and I, for one, am not about to allow it on this space.

Zoheb said...

I am amazed to see the kind of responses who even never had anythng to do with the case yet acts as if they are the know all and be all of all medical histories of Rashmi

How do we know "

Its time you asked the same question to yourself .. How do you know the true case of the story and what makes you fell that there was a negligence. Millions of people die in the operating table,, and lakhs of indian women loose their baby mid way.

It would be interesting to see if you had reacted the same way as you are doing

if Just by using a blog and knowing english makes you feel empowered .. you are very wrong..

The fact is medical complications can develop anywhere and anytime. No Doctor should be responsible for that . Medical negligence is however diferent from medical complications and docs have to be accountable for that

How do we know said...

Hi Zoheb: Anyone who has read the story and the response of Wockhardt will not ask the questions you have asked. However, for the sake of responding, i will respond to you.
We asked Wockhardt for a response. They came back with a big response that did not address the basic issue of negligence in this case, and harped on totally tangential points. You can read the response of Wockhardt yourself.

Wockhardt has the power to protect the guilty, we have the power to back the victim and to stop friends and colleagues from giving any more billing to this hospital.

You are, of course, free to make your profile public, to create a blog and to write posts on your beliefs. What i will not appreciate, is any further discussion on the subject on this space. Thank you and goodbye.

chandrika said...

chandrika
June 20, 2009 at 12:34 PM

I have been closely following the entire episode of Rashmi and people speaking for and against the doctors.
I would like to add on that i have undergone 3 deliveries under the care of Dr.Latha Venkatram, i find her highly professional and very much for following the protocols of international standard and also a wonderful person who works for the welfare of the patients.
I would also like to add that i do sympathize with Rashmi, as i have also gone through what she is going through.
I lost my first child inspite of having a C-section and a timely one too and that too with Dr.Latha.
The only difference is that i trusted her judgement and i have had two other normal deliveries later and both my children are normal with no problems.
She is not the one who takes a decision without explaining to the patient, and when i choose to opt for a normal delivery after the first mishap with the C-section I was explained all the pros and cons that follow the normal delivery after a C-section, including the statistical quotes from international protocols, The choice was finally left to me to and there was no pressure of any sort from the doctors side.
After i lost my first child i went through the same phase of depression which i think Rashmi is also going through, but i had Dr.Lathas full support which helped me to overcome the grief and also gave me the courage to go through another pregnancy and also have a normal delivery.
Dr.Latha is a person who has the courage to accept her faults if there were any and also to stand by her patients in case of any calamity.
I have seen her send her relatives to donate blood when there was a PPH following a delivery for her patient who was not even related.
Infact I also know that she was with Mrs.Rashmi, counselling her time and again and even when the baby was taken out of ventilator, she was by her side to support her morally when it was not required of her to be present.
I also read that Mrs.Rashmi’s statement that Dr.Latha will do the same thing with the next patient.It is just misinterpretation, I presume that she would have told that she would quote the same protocol to the next patient too when she comes.
I think that if Mrs.Rashmi was so sure that the entire thing is due to negligence and she had ample proof of the negligence she would be in the lawyers office instead of trying to create a sympathy wave by writing all these in the blog.
My sympathies are also with her, i only hope she would go back to Dr.Latha sit and discuss what went wrong and what should be done to prevent it in future instead of mud slinging and also hope that her friends and family will stop talking about the same thing time and again and push her to depression. It would do her a lot of good if she can leave this episode behind her and carry on with her life so that her first son gets her attention and she can always embark on a pregnancy again.
Nobody is god here to always give 100% positive result and it will help if we can surrender to destiny, and accept that just as there is life there is death too. I know that this attitude will help as i have experienced it personally that too with my first pregnancy loss when i was not even sure that i will be able to concieve again.
Also stop consulting doctors who will advise contradictory to what you have undergone for publicity purposes.
So Mrs. Rashmi buck up and stop this mud slinging and get along with life.

Reply

~nm said...

this was so so horrifying to read. I had goosebumps all over my body s I read the post.

I've no words to convey what I feel right now.

I'm even more appalled at the nonchalance of the hospital.

How do we know said...

Hi Chandrika: I m glad that you had a positive experience with the doctor. In this case, we are discussing whether Dr. Latha VEnkatraman was negligent towards Rashmi and her baby.

Dr. Latha's career statistics will become important only if more such cases are uncovered where she was deliberately and criminally negligent. I am hoping that this was the only one, and that majority of her patients share your experience.

Hi ~nm: Tum ne abhi tak nahi padha? God, i have been shouting out this case from the rooftops!! Good to c u back! missed u.

Smitha said...

Hi,

I read Rashmi's story on Mad Momma's blog. Have posted a response there as well, but i just had to respond to some of the comments by some insensitive creatures to this blog.

Before I get to that, I need to respond to a couple of questions that Suman has raised:
Question 3 (about printed details of the specific process). This is not very feasible in a general hospital, but given that Nest caters specifically to the obstetric needs, it would be great if they could have printed information regarding the procedures that could be applied to deliver a baby. This would have resulted in the patient being more informed about the process. However, this is not mandatory. And some doctors do not explain the procedure thoroughly to the patient before obtaining consent. The patient has the option of withholding consent or seeking care elsewhere. In addition, we have national bodies that are striving to make the medical process more transparent - a slow process, but efforts are on.

I seriously doubt that Dr. Prabha did not know about the uterine rupture until she operated on the patient.

An ordinary C-section (LSCS) can be completed in under 10 min if everything goes well. However, it is stipulated that it should take about 15 min for the process to have ensured that all the safety checks are satisfactory. Second, when Rashmi was operated upon, she was already at risk of losing her life with her uterus ruptured and having significant blood loss, which would have resulted in a situation where the surgeons had to work fast to arrest the bleeding, replace the blood lost, administer drugs, etc., to stabilize Rashmi's condition, which would definitely have been critical at that point. This surgery would have taken much longer for all the above reasons. One good thing they did: they could save her uterus, which would otherwise have been removed if the bleeding could not be controlled.

Posts by Bruno and Neil are insensitive and undignified, I think Bruno appears to be a medical professional, as am I, but he seems to have missed the entire point of blogging about this horrifying destruction of someone's life and health which appears to be due to medical negligence on the face of it.

Personally, I am a strong believer in natural/normal delivery though I had to have an LSCS due to complications with my baby.

I see a lot of women attempting VBAC and I am concerned; there are so many factors which are not discussed with patients and this just adds to the risk profile.

As far as Neil's other comment regarding lakhs of women dying during pregnancy or childbirth -we are trying to create a world where we can minimise loss of life by providing better care, not use that to justify medical negligence.

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